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Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:14 pm
by The Yid
So what do you think is market value for the Ricoh and it's freehold?

I've heard £20m and £30m suggested as ballpark figures.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:31 pm
by skyblue
The Yid wrote:So what do you think is market value for the Ricoh and it's freehold?

I've heard £20m and £30m suggested as ballpark figures.


Three n' six.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:29 pm
by the boss
The Yid wrote:So what do you think is market value for the Ricoh and it's freehold?

I've heard £20m and £30m suggested as ballpark figures.



I would not have a clue but I'd guess it would be a lot less without a football team playing there which IMO is a major factor in them dragging the club 35 miles away.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:00 pm
by AD
The Yid wrote:So what do you think is market value for the Ricoh and it's freehold?

I've heard £20m and £30m suggested as ballpark figures.


Les Reid speculated £7m in a CT headline a while ago, which seems ridiculously low. Part of his new found favouritism towards JS for giving him an exclusive interview? His reporting on the affair does appear to have done an almost 180 degree turn since that point.

I'd say your valuation would be closer

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:52 am
by billythefish
The Ricoh without events is worth next to nothing. It needs to be used on a regular basis and part of that is the football club. I am yet to find anything to believe it could even make a small profit based on the very limited usage it has now. Not even sure what and when the last event held there was.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:19 am
by AD
Wasn't it The Boss?


He was busking outside on Saturday :mrgreen:

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:47 am
by billythefish
Ah yes remember that now - wasnt that just after the season ended (May-June time). So in a year they are currently getting 1-2 big concerts. They used to get the odd Northampton Heinken Cup game but that seemed to have ended. So we have an arena without any regular sporting team playing there and the odd gig every year. What value would you put on that?

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:16 am
by Burf
value of the Ricoh without a football team playing there ?

Well I guess it's pretty much identical to the current going rate for a White Elephant....

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:29 am
by plastic scouser
a bag of peanuts?

maybe 2 bags.....after all, it is on trunk road....

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:02 pm
by AD
These concerts are booked some way in advance, and they had to assume the place would be needed for football at the moment. Imagine last year they'd decided to assume the club were leaving and set up gigs during the football season in say September, March etc. You'd be here saying ACL couldn't give a shit about the club, CCFC are put second blah blah blah. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. The exhibition hall is holding a big snooker tournament in a few weeks, and had the Davis Cup earlier in the year. Plus the Muse and Springsteen gigs. All in the last 6 months.

And as the ACL board say, much of their income is from conferences and conventions. Now, there may well be spin included on that, but if there were a National Homeopathy Conference, say, with thousands of attendees over a few days would we hear of it? Almost certainly not, yet in terms of renting out the exhibition hall they'd get a few days worth, possibly with associated catering and hotel facility use that's worth more than a one-off concert by a reasonably well-known artist in terms of money in the pocket, even if it doesn't have the kudos or exposure. The big concerts in the main arena would make more profit than the conventions I reckon, and maybe that will be the case if future years as ACL are unlikely to leave the main arena totally unused for a second season. I did wonder if they'd considered asking the FA if they wished to use it as a semi-permanent home for the younger England age squads. Probably about the right size and easily accessible from everywhere in the country, plus gives them a reason to maintain the pitch in preparation of a potential return.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:51 pm
by Burf
Presumably though with the National Homeopathy Conference the less people that attend the more effective an event it is....?

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:14 pm
by AD
:lol:

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:32 am
by billythefish
Why would the FA use the Ricoh when they have spent millions on the centre at Burton? Whilst you say that ACL wouldnt keep the Ricoh unused for a second season there just isnt a natural regular sporting team that could fill it. So it would be left to "one-off" events where they compete with several other venues.

Thats a fair point about conventions and whilst it makes sense that it makes money for ACL would that really generate enough footfall for additional hotels? The company I work for looked at the Ricoh for a major sales event recently and the major plus points were location and amount of parking but there were much cheaper/better options available. So it has some major plus points as a conference venue but dont see much profit in the actual arena itself.

A better bet for ACL would be to knock the arena down and build more halls etc - that would be a more sustainable business model.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:35 pm
by AD
I didn't mean as a training base, I meant for matches at U21/19/18 level, maybe even U16/Victory Shield level. These are, to my knowledge, all still played at club venues.

As for the hotels, I couldn't say definitively, although I certainly think there would be a case for it. If you have conventions that last more than one day then staying on-site would be preferable, and there could well be demand for a few hundred rooms at least, obviously dependent on the size of the conference.

If you are then making money out of the hotel, you could probably afford to put in a cheaper price for the exhibition hall and make that more competitive, thus attracting more business to it. Possibly a bit speculative but sound in theory.

The thing that has set my alarm bells ringing is everyone connected with SISU mentioning CCFC getting access to the matchday revenues, but making no mention of this area of income, which supposedly makes up a majority of the Ricoh's takings.

Knocking the arena down and building more halls would be an option, although one I fear would be frightfully expensive. I think putting a roof on could be a more efficient, although still costly, option. I don't know if the stadium was designed with extra load bearing capacity to take the extra weight or if strengthening would be required, but if you did that, along with something akin to the StadiArena thing Fletcher had, you could keep the large bowl for stadium gigs (both open air summer gigs and closed roof off-season ones assuming you make it acoustically sound), but also split it up for smaller gigs/conventions if necessary. Much more flexible and configurable.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:16 pm
by Timbo
AD wrote:I didn't mean as a training base, I meant for matches at U21/19/18 level, maybe even U16/Victory Shield level. These are, to my knowledge, all still played at club venues.


They are but do you know what the attendances are for games below U21 level?

Its all very well saying that you could have this event and that event but how many of them are that profitable? Putting on football matches has significant overheads. Music acts who play Arena venues don't come cheap.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:21 pm
by skyblue025
The last England U21 game played at the Ricoh had 30k+ there if I remember correctly.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:27 am
by CoC
skyblue025 wrote:The last England U21 game played at the Ricoh had 30k+ there if I remember correctly.


20k for the last game when England beat Macedonia 6 - 3 back in 2009.

31k for the game previously when England beat Germany 1 - 0 in 2006.

the crowds would soon drop if it became a regular thing. the only reason the Germany game was a sell out was because of the opposition and the importance of the game.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:15 am
by Timbo
U21 games get good attendances which is why there is so much competition to host them from stadiums of a similar size. At the level below I doubt the crowds are sufficient enough to be worthwhile. Recent U18 games have been held at Burton, Mansfield and Crewe. All are a third of the size of the Ricoh.

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:03 pm
by AD
I'm aware the U21's get much higher attendances than the other age groups, but I assume any attempt to monopolise holding these games would have to include some sort of concession to hosting those that aren't. As CoC says the novelty may well wear off relatively quickly, but with only half a dozen or so at each age group every year I think they'd be reasonable.

It would help cashflow, and probably help keep things like the casino sweet as they still have some extra takings from semi-regular events. Plus a bit of kudos with the association with the national team and possibly more widespread media attention.

It's not a fantastic plan that would solve the problems, but it might be better than it being empty

Re: Last Chance Saloon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:34 am
by The Englander
the boss wrote:for fuck sake :roll: If they want the ground they should bid for it, its not fucking difficult is it :roll: :roll:


You can't bid for something dumb **** won't sell to you. As for holding out for a lower price, why wouldn't they? What kind of arse pays (For the sake of round numbers) £100,000 for something they know they might get a few months down the line for £75,000? If you had the chance to buy a house on the cheap, you would.

As for Callum Wilson, Adge, maybe next time it will be five yards out, but he's signed on the dotted line and scored from two so far....