When Les met Joy...

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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby Burf » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:03 pm

I'll be doing what I've done ever since we moved to the shitty Ricoh ... Only going to away matches in the North. ;-)

Ground share with Morecambe is my preferred option.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby AD » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:03 pm

Burf wrote:Still not getting what your alternative is here AD?

SISU will have that team playing to two people & their dog in an empty cowshed in Northampton or anywhere else for that matter, for as long as it takes. They cannot be forced to sell. They don't care if 150 becomes the home crowd. They can't be starved out. Don't you get that ?
So what's your plan ?


ACL cannot be forced to sell. Don't you get that? With the mortgage no longer in third party hands no-one can force ACL out. Even if all the other businesses moved out it would be more worthwhile for them to mothball it for a few years than sell it on the cheap. But that still won't be necessary. They'll still get the odd gig and other function that will keep the cashflow ticking over.

On the other hand CCFC costs money to keep running. Lots of it. Paying the players costs more than the upkeep costs of the stadium. And as I asked where was the money to buy the Ricoh when it was available at way below market value? Where was it to buy players and gain promotion and the TV pot of gold? It wasn't there was it? It's never been there.

SISU made losses for three consecutive years. OK, latest accounts show a small profit of just under £100k - hardly massive for a sector based solely on money and mainly due to a large cost cutting exercise involving quite a significant reduction in employees. Turnover was £1.7m, down 20% in a year because investors are pulling out. Less than the turnover of both CCFC and ACL. These are not big players.

Joy's dividends from SISU shared with Dermot Coleman £139k and £145k in 2012/2011 respectively - chicken feed. In 2013 this rose to £350k in 2013. So you imagine they're doing well? Not necessarily. A massive increase in owner drawings without a massive increase in trade more often than not indicates an owner trying to take as much money out of the business before it goes pop.

SISU are basically following the Sun Tzu strategy of appear strong when you are weak. Despite what she says about investment, all the actual information available points in completely the opposite direction - that her funds are small and getting smaller.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby The Yid » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:13 pm

But you're guessing... You don't even know how their dividends are calculated? Do you know what SISU's cash balance is? How much is their total portfolio worth?
Even of you took a conservative view on their investment so far - say £40m and yet still has investors on board, were not really talking about chicken feed are we ?
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby Burf » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:17 pm

Who cares about ACL selling ? The Ricoh is irrelevant. We shan't ever play there again.We're talking about forcing SISU out as owners of CCFC. As far as they're concerned the Ricoh is just a venue they don't own & have to pay rent at. And they've got a point .. A football team should own the ground at which it plays. I think you think they're desperate to get the Ricoh. I don't think they are. Maybe they plan to build a cheap little ground, get successive promotions, make their profit & then sell up? They're going nowhere for the foreseeable future. This is like Groundhog Day ...So how are you going to get them to sell a club they don't want to sell?
What's your plan, seriously ?
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby the boss » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:25 pm

The Yid wrote:Even of you took a conservative view on their investment so far - say £40m ?



if that figure is correct then they are a bunch of clowns to want to continue as they would need to get to the premier to break even. How tyhe fuck can they lose 40 million and have us where we are :?: Maybe they think we will find the next Bale :roll:
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby The Yid » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:05 am

the boss wrote:
The Yid wrote:Even of you took a conservative view on their investment so far - say £40m ?



if that figure is correct then they are a bunch of clowns to want to continue as they would need to get to the premier to break even. How tyhe fuck can they lose 40 million and have us where we are :?: Maybe they think we will find the next Bale :roll:


Imagine how much of that was spent on paying off shit managers.....
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby AD » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:51 am

Burf wrote:Who cares about ACL selling ? The Ricoh is irrelevant. We shan't ever play there again.We're talking about forcing SISU out as owners of CCFC. As far as they're concerned the Ricoh is just a venue they don't own & have to pay rent at. And they've got a point .. A football team should own the ground at which it plays. I think you think they're desperate to get the Ricoh. I don't think they are. Maybe they plan to build a cheap little ground, get successive promotions, make their profit & then sell up? They're going nowhere for the foreseeable future. This is like Groundhog Day ...So how are you going to get them to sell a club they don't want to sell?
What's your plan, seriously ?


Ok, so they'll build a cheap little ground and get successive promotions. With what? If they're under constraints of salary cost management/FFP they can only spend the revenue they make. Which will be much less than it was due to an alienated fan base and unable to take advantage of the one or two big crowds we get a season when we're either on a run or get a lucrative cup tie. So having failed dismally to achieve promotion with the bigger gates and income (instead going the other way) they'll suddenly achieve two? They might just be able to fluke one - every team seems capable of one decent season and we're long overdue - but two? Stranger things have happened but not many. If that's the plan they're clutching at straws.

And how long will this take? Number of potential sites increasing. No plans of any kind or planning permission. No start to the consultation process, which will almost certainly see any plans massively opposed. Then the building time. If they got that done in 10 years I'd be amazed. 10 years of playing in front of one man and his dog, resulting in huge losses which will in turn affect the investment she can raise as investors question her strategies. But of course this is all irrelevant. Because it's all horseshit.

Like I say, my plan is to wait. Up until now she's given no interviews, letting the minions do it, so why suddenly now? Why double your drawings out of your business and reduce your workforce by twenty percent when turnover has decreased by the same amount? Why bring a judicial review against a decision that had no realistic chance of success for a venue you supposedly have no interest in? These are signs of desperation. She needs this concluded quickly before she's stuck in a hole with ever dwindling tools to get herself out of.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby The Yid » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:47 am

AD wrote:Ok, so they'll build a cheap little ground and get successive promotions. With what? If they're under constraints of salary cost management/FFP they can only spend the revenue they make.


But that's not true is it? Under the terms of salary cost management arrangement the owners can supplement unlimited funds to the club - but they can only be donations, and in no way can end up as debt in the future. So they can afford to build a stadium if they choose to. If they borrow funds to build it that may need to be clarified how and where that would sit though.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby the boss » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:05 pm

The Yid wrote: So they can afford to build a stadium if they choose to. If they borrow funds to build it that may need to be clarified how and where that would sit though.



there will not be any new ground. Its all pie in the sky talk. I can't believe how many seem to think they are telling the truth :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby AD » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:38 pm

The Yid wrote:
AD wrote:Ok, so they'll build a cheap little ground and get successive promotions. With what? If they're under constraints of salary cost management/FFP they can only spend the revenue they make.


But that's not true is it? Under the terms of salary cost management arrangement the owners can supplement unlimited funds to the club - but they can only be donations, and in no way can end up as debt in the future. So they can afford to build a stadium if they choose to. If they borrow funds to build it that may need to be clarified how and where that would sit though.


That's a point I've made whenever TF brings it up. But he handily glosses over it. They've had the opportunity to put cash in in this manner for the past 6 years and haven't done so, putting it all in as loans (not that I necessarily disagree with it as it's what I would do, although the misleading impression given to the public in statements like no debt mantras etc I completely disagree with).

So from that I think we can surmise that no such donations will ever be forthcoming and the club will be running upon its own operating income alone. Which will be nowhere near enough to turn this club into one capable of being a force in English football and allowing Joy to get her money back in that manner, whether they build a new stadium and get those revenues or not.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby Burf » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:50 pm

"My plan is to wait".

Ergo - you haven't got a plan. As I thought.
We're all waiting. That's all that's happening.
I think I might just carry on supporting the club while we all wait then & I suggest everyone what does to.
It's going to be a long wait, for this thing that's not going to happen....
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby AD » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:59 pm

Burf wrote:"My plan is to wait".

Ergo - you haven't got a plan. As I thought.
We're all waiting. That's all that's happening.
I think I might just carry on supporting the club while we all wait then & I suggest everyone what does to.
It's going to be a long wait, for this thing that's not going to happen....


No. The plan is to wait. Not give a knee jerk reaction to this or any of the other threats she makes. That's what she wants. A small sign of weakness to show she's in with a chance. So don't give it her.

She reckons she's strong and has lots of backers and the money available to sustain losses and build a stadium, so I say let her prove it. According to TF the land for the new stadium would be bought by now, the new stadium plans in with the relevant authorities and basically the ball would be rolling. It isn't. If anything it's further away from that stage than when he made that statement.

The Ricoh isn't going to suddenly disappear overnight, neither will the land. As the real estate/property markets appears to be showing signs of improvement why sell now at a low point?

Wait. Make her prove her bullish comments and eventually she'll have sufficient rope to hang herself with.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby The Yid » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:20 pm

Not being funny but they said they would leave the Ricoh... They did. They also said they wouldn't sell in last transfer window.. They didn't. They said club isn't for sale... It's not.
So maybe they will build a stadium after all - maybe they're hoping that ACL & CCC brick it and sell the Ricoh. But in this game of poker I am certain that the Council will blink first.

And your rationale for them not building a stadium is because they haven't publicly said where the stadium will be straight away? Again you are just guessing but in reality you don't have a single shred if evidence to back up your assertion.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby AD » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:13 pm

They also said CCFC was debt free - it wasn't, not by a long way.

They said players wouldn't be allowed to leave on a free and run out their contracts - they did.

They said important players wouldn't be sold for a quick buck and would form the basis of a team going forward - they were sold.

They said players weren't registered in Ltd during their ownership, until evidence was provided showing is was a Lamentable Incorrect Error, to which their response was "oh, THOSE players! yeah, they were in ltd, but no others were. Honest. Yes, we know the latest accounts show they were, but they weren't. Cross my heart and hope to die"

They said ltd was just a company for the commercial and buildings side and Holdings was for the football. Minutes from board meetings and the Articles and Memorandum clearly show it was the other way round.

They said they'd been paying rent after the rent strike started. They hadn't - they'd been paying matchday costs, which is like you telling your landlord you've paid the rent because you paid the gas and electricity bill.

TF said they'd got practically bought a site and were on the verge of submitting plans. Months later and the number of potential sites is increasing and no such purchase or plans have been submitted. Expect it to be 6 sites by Xmas.

This is a woman described as unreliable and all but a liar by the judiciary.

So do I think there's a chance she might be taking a bit of artistic licence with the facts this time? Just a bit.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby Burf » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:22 pm

Waiting isn't a plan. It's doing nothing. So if all you say is true it won't matter if we fill Sixfields every other week & carry on like normal will it. If they're on the slide as you say then a thousand extra bums on seats in Northampton is irrelevant.
Seems to me that many people have become more blindly anti SISU than they are pro Coventry City FC...
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby the boss » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:36 am

Burf wrote:Waiting isn't a plan. It's doing nothing. So if all you say is true it won't matter if we fill Sixfields every other week & carry on like normal will it. If they're on the slide as you say then a thousand extra bums on seats in Northampton is irrelevant.
Seems to me that many people have become more blindly anti SISU than they are pro Coventry City FC...


waiting is the best idea by a mile. Follow the team at away games to get your fix. If they can run the club on the gates they getting at Northamton for the next five years whilst they wait for the flatpack to be put together then let them. What difference would an extra 1000 or 2000 make :?: They have said they can fund the club for years so lets see them do it. Somehow I can't see it going on for much longer on the income they are getting unless maybe they could get a big fee for a player and it will help them with digging their hole a while longer but thats the only way they will keep this stupid plan going. I really cannot believe how so many take what they say as gospel :roll: :roll:
For fucks sake we still have a transfer embargo on the club :roll: Why is that is everything if in such good shape :?:
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby The Yid » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:10 am

Moving to Northampton is a fucking stupid plan, but still not nearly as stupid as letting the council rape us for every penny. They have called the councils bluff (albeit at the expense of alienating their fanbase). IMO they won't be a new stadium, and the club will be back at Ricoh as owners within 2 seasons. ACL have done a sterling job distressing themselves, and in the process devaluing their own property.
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby the boss » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:30 am

The Yid wrote:Moving to Northampton is a fucking stupid plan, but still not nearly as stupid as letting the council rape us for every penny.



what they should of done was gone public with the threat to move from the Ricoh due to the high rent payment before they stopped paying. They could of made a case for having to move unless they could agree a lower fee which would of got most of the fans behind them and would of put pressure on the owners to find a solution. Instead they acted like spoilt kids and took their ball home. They really had no idea how the fans (clients) would react and to be honest I think they still don't. Why did it take Joy so long to even talk to anyone? If she is what she builds herself up to be, she would of had a PR team in place two years ago to get fans on their side. Instead we got Fisher :roll: :roll: They should be in a circus 8)
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Re: When Les met Joy...

Postby Nick » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:45 am

and round and round and round it goes
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Postby Realist » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:23 pm

the boss wrote:
The Yid wrote: So they can afford to build a stadium if they choose to. If they borrow funds to build it that may need to be clarified how and where that would sit though.



there will not be any new ground. Its all pie in the sky talk. I can't believe how many seem to think they are telling the truth :roll: :roll: :roll:


This is the reason I will not set foot inside Sixfields. If I thought they were genuinely going to build a new stadium, I'd see it as a means to an end, but as far as I'm concerned there will be no stadium built.
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