the moon on a stick

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the moon on a stick

Postby Burf » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:54 pm

reading me old mate Les's tweets on today's demands from ACL, it seems that's what they want before agreeing
to sign off the CVA ... [smilie=icon_blink.gif]

I'm taking no sides on this btw : by this point in the proceedings I think both sides are utter **** & it's the fans that
are suffering, so frankly I just want a common sense solution.

But I can't see what ACL are doing here - they must know Fisher's lot are never going to concede to these terms ? So it'll be no CVA &
surely then it's liquidation all the way ?

to repeat myself for the umpteenth time : what a sorry fucking mess.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby The Englander » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:59 pm

Spot on. Have just written 'Fuck Off ACL' elsewhere. Apt.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby billythefish » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:21 am

Based on what I have read -

Positives from ACL -

The rent offered seems to have been set at a reasonable rate.
Like the sliding scale based on what division we are in
A 10 year term seems reasonable as doesnt tie the club in for too long etc

Negatives -

No option to buy the Ricoh or part of it
No income from the food etc

As these are the two things that SISU/Otium have asked for then it isnt a great offer and as people have said I cant see this being accepted.

Regarding the option to purchase part or all of the Ricoh then I think this is the one clause that will kill the deal. Cant see either ACL or SISU etc backing down on this one.

I guess the problem with the food is no idea what the agreement with Compass is and if there is any get out clause. There may well be no option here - I just dont know enough detail. But even if there is then surely when the Compass deal runs out there could be some 50/50 agreement within this deal.

The interesting bit for me was the condition of the judicial review being dropped. Does someone involved in this have something to hide?

Personally if I was ACL or involved in the talks then I would suggest that a one year deal was agreed (paid up front) with ongoing discussions taking place to try and agree a longer deal moving forward. That allows the club to play at the Ricoh and buys time whilst the two parties try and resolve the issue.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby king chillout » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:00 am

The council will never sell to SISU. Never. My high placed source in the council is still sticking to this opinion and I believe him/her.

What I want to know is....how much money is made from selling a few pies and pints on a matchday ?
Surely it can't be that much ? Anyone with any sense goes into the Casino before the game.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby billythefish » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:09 pm

king chillout wrote:The council will never sell to SISU. Never. My high placed source in the council is still sticking to this opinion and I believe him/her.

What I want to know is....how much money is made from selling a few pies and pints on a matchday ?
Surely it can't be that much ? Anyone with any sense goes into the Casino before the game.


At the games I have been to - there is a steady flow at all of the outlets before and after the game, at half time then unless you go down a few minutes before half time you will spend a long time in a queue. No idea of the figures but generally the profit will be around the 60% mark. At the minute this is based on Compass running this -

If someone with any nous gained control then they could improve the return massively. I went to a Brighton game last year (free ticket thru work) and they had offers on before the game (4 pints for £10 and something like 2 pints two pies for £10), were showing games from the clubs past on the TVs (a cup semi was on when I was there), afterwards they then showed the highlights and had all hot food reduced. Think some Saturdays they then have live music and meet the players sessions. Due to the location talking to the guys I went with they got there about an hour before the game and stayed an hour after. This allowed all the traffic and problems at the station to calm down before they left.

Not rocket science but if you owned the Ricoh, got the food/drink profits and a creative mind you should be easily able to increase the footfall. Apart from the Casino and Hell Lane Social what competition do you have?
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby bidford_tom » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:12 am

A lot seems to be made of the secondary revenue from F&B, however I don't think there's much to be gained from it for the club.

Firstly, I imagine the actual money maker for Compass is the other catering activity, which will be carried out in a much better way for them than a two-hour-rush. Therefore, providing match day catering I think would be a necessary evil for them as part of the contract.

Secondly, and I don't wish to patronise anyone here, but there is a significant difference between revenue (which the club could include in FFP I guess) and net profit (cash benefit to the club).

On an average gate of 12,000 people each spending £3.00 (I think this is about right, as a significant number wouldn't but anything) would generate £30,000 net revenue.
Someone like Compass would be able to run at very high GP's based on their buying power, somewhere around 80% I would suggest - therefore £24,000 gross profit.
Wages - this would be round about 25% of turnover, there will be a portion of overhead included within this as the support team (Managers etc..) don't just work one day per week.
There would also need to be a x-charge for utilities, maintenance of equipment, cost of marketing and promotion, insurance etc...
Therefore my best guess is a 20% net margin - roughly £7,500 per home game.

This then needs to be split three ways - Compass / ACL / CCFC - would it be equal? I'd suggest it wouldn't as Compass would want a higher split due to them doing all the work...

So all this fuss over what might be an additional £2000 per home game of income - £46,000 per season....

Yes there might be some upside in some of this, and yes the club could potentially operate it better than Compass and generate more upside, but let's face it, this revenue stream is not, in itself, the answer..

It's another thing to bicker over to win the war of words
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby skyblue025 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:43 pm

The bit I don't get is Shitsu had the chance to buy the Higgs share, had agreed a deal in principle, then chose not to buy it. Why???

So why is it such a stumbling block?

I know ACl aren't whiter than white but at least they are the ones trying to keep us in Coventry. Yes they probably need the club to make profit, but Sisu need to be playing in Coventry to even attempt to break even.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby Timbo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:22 pm

skyblue025 wrote:I know ACl aren't whiter than white but at least they are the ones trying to keep us in Coventry. Yes they probably need the club to make profit, but Sisu need to be playing in Coventry to even attempt to break even.


Of course ACL want the club to stay in Cov... as long as they are getting paid by them to do so. SISU/Otium want the club to stay in the city too... in a stadium they own (preferably the Ricoh).

Reading some comments you'd get the impression that moving to Northampton was intended to be a permanent move.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby The Englander » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:46 pm

If you intend to turn the club into a franchise, you would want to move it to a place with a large catchment area and no team. Somewhere like Coventry. The club will come back to Coventry if it actually does move away.
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby AD » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:29 pm

skyblue025 wrote:The bit I don't get is Shitsu had the chance to buy the Higgs share, had agreed a deal in principle, then chose not to buy it. Why???

So why is it such a stumbling block?

I know ACl aren't whiter than white but at least they are the ones trying to keep us in Coventry. Yes they probably need the club to make profit, but Sisu need to be playing in Coventry to even attempt to break even.


Because CCC can veto the sale as co-owners, just as Higgs can with the other half
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby AD » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:32 pm

king chillout wrote:The council will never sell to SISU. Never. My high placed source in the council is still sticking to this opinion and I believe him/her.

What I want to know is....how much money is made from selling a few pies and pints on a matchday ?
Surely it can't be that much ? Anyone with any sense goes into the Casino before the game.


I read that TF said at one of the forums it was 600k per season, with a profit of 100k, and he considered it to be low margin.

But that is second hand so don't take is a gospel
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Re: the moon on a stick

Postby billythefish » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:20 am

AD wrote:
king chillout wrote:The council will never sell to SISU. Never. My high placed source in the council is still sticking to this opinion and I believe him/her.

What I want to know is....how much money is made from selling a few pies and pints on a matchday ?
Surely it can't be that much ? Anyone with any sense goes into the Casino before the game.


I read that TF said at one of the forums it was 600k per season, with a profit of 100k, and he considered it to be low margin.

But that is second hand so don't take is a gospel


Low margin! - that is fucking shocking if correct!
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