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Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:17 am
by skyblue
The poll function hasn't been used for a while so I thought I'd bring it back with the time honoured stick or switch question about the manager.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:38 pm
by adge
Thorn is the luckiest manager we have ever had. He has got away with it and if it was anyone else they would have been hung from the Tesco stand long before the end of the season. He has had a big smoke screen shielding him because of Sisu and the off field antics etc. People need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise that what we have seen in the last 5-6 games of the season is how it is going to be in league 1.These players are not going to become world beaters and be hit with the "quality" stick all of a sudden. They are not good enough.Adding to it will make a slight improvement but the majority of the dross will still be here. No fire in the belly either and that all stems from the manager.
For a start-when Norwich went down the first thing they did after 2-3 games was get rid of Bryan Gunn. Lambert then signed Grant Holt and Simeon Jackson etc to replace an innefective striker in Cody McDonald-guess who ended up with him? :roll: . Likewise Southampton when they went down cleared out the decks and started again. Many thought that getting rid of Pardew was a mistake and only 2 players from that era remain and 1 of them is Lallana.
If people think that Thorn and his long term cronies of McPake,Bell,Baker,Hussey,Deegan,McSheffrey,McDonald,Platt, and the likes of Clarke,Thomas,Bigirimana etc are going to make an impression-think again.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:27 pm
by AD
But that extremely poor end to the season did co-incide with practically the entire squad being out injured. FOUR players took part in the final training session before Doncaster. The fact is most of the players playing simply weren't fit to be out there, and let's face it they struggle enough even when they are fit.

If Thorn starts L1 badly he WILL be gone, just like Gunn was at Norwich.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:52 pm
by The Yid
adge wrote: Likewise Southampton when they went down cleared out the decks and started again. Many thought that getting rid of Pardew was a mistake and only 2 players from that era remain and 1 of them is Lallana.


Pardew signed Lambert, Jaidi, Barnard, Fonte, Hammond, Murty, Harding, Connolly, Seaborne, Ostembor and Puncheon whilst they were in League 1 spending nearly £3 million in the process. How can you even compare that with our situation?? Where do you propose that we get this money from??
Thorn may have scouted the players you have quoted, but he will have scouted others that we have either bought and sold on, or ones that we wanted but financially were never capable of getting. We have those players because we have no fans, no assets and no stadium. You can moan all you like about the manager and his 'long term cronies' but they were the best we could get for the money we had.

Now does that lie with the manager.... or does it lies with the crap owners and apathetic fans that complain all the time - but inexplicably fail to see the connection between the money needed to buy players and the amount of revenue we get through the turnstiles?

I read on the CET website about the club witholding the rent for a second time. If it is the only way to get the rent negotiated then I fully support it. But fans think becuase its SISU in charge we should have to pay it because they are 'Evil'. if however Gary 'White Dhinsa' Hoffman had taken over they would be going apoplectic about the same thing.

We are getting shafted by SISU, shafted by the council, shafted by ACL and Alan Higgs.... but lets blame Thorn instead becuase he's an easy target.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:14 pm
by adge
The Yid wrote:
adge wrote: Likewise Southampton when they went down cleared out the decks and started again. Many thought that getting rid of Pardew was a mistake and only 2 players from that era remain and 1 of them is Lallana.


Pardew signed Lambert, Jaidi, Barnard, Fonte, Hammond, Murty, Harding, Connolly, Seaborne, Ostembor and Puncheon whilst they were in League 1 spending nearly £3 million in the process. How can you even compare that with our situation?? Where do you propose that we get this money from??
Thorn may have scouted the players you have quoted, but he will have scouted others that we have either bought and sold on, or ones that we wanted but financially were never capable of getting. We have those players because we have no fans, no assets and no stadium. You can moan all you like about the manager and his 'long term cronies' but they were the best we could get for the money we had.

Now does that lie with the manager.... or does it lies with the crap owners and apathetic fans that complain all the time - but inexplicably fail to see the connection between the money needed to buy players and the amount of revenue we get through the turnstiles?

I read on the CET website about the club witholding the rent for a second time. If it is the only way to get the rent negotiated then I fully support it. But fans think becuase its SISU in charge we should have to pay it because they are 'Evil'. if however Gary 'White Dhinsa' Hoffman had taken over they would be going apoplectic about the same thing.

We are getting shafted by SISU, shafted by the council, shafted by ACL and Alan Higgs.... but lets blame Thorn instead becuase he's an easy target.
He certainly is-and gets all the shit he deserves when offering long term contracts to Bell etc. I understand the point that these are all we can afford-True-doesn't mean they are any good and we can move forward with them!

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:29 pm
by bolix
Imagine a fleet of sky blue busses owned by a sky blue bus company were constantly breaking down because they were old or had faulty spare parts. Now then, if the passengers were stone cold thick they'd probably have a go at the driver......others might realise that certain jobs require decent equipment and sympathise that the driver had done all he could. Just saying.....

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:58 pm
by The Yid
adge wrote:
The Yid wrote:
adge wrote: Likewise Southampton when they went down cleared out the decks and started again. Many thought that getting rid of Pardew was a mistake and only 2 players from that era remain and 1 of them is Lallana.


Pardew signed Lambert, Jaidi, Barnard, Fonte, Hammond, Murty, Harding, Connolly, Seaborne, Ostembor and Puncheon whilst they were in League 1 spending nearly £3 million in the process. How can you even compare that with our situation?? Where do you propose that we get this money from??
Thorn may have scouted the players you have quoted, but he will have scouted others that we have either bought and sold on, or ones that we wanted but financially were never capable of getting. We have those players because we have no fans, no assets and no stadium. You can moan all you like about the manager and his 'long term cronies' but they were the best we could get for the money we had.

Now does that lie with the manager.... or does it lies with the crap owners and apathetic fans that complain all the time - but inexplicably fail to see the connection between the money needed to buy players and the amount of revenue we get through the turnstiles?

I read on the CET website about the club witholding the rent for a second time. If it is the only way to get the rent negotiated then I fully support it. But fans think becuase its SISU in charge we should have to pay it because they are 'Evil'. if however Gary 'White Dhinsa' Hoffman had taken over they would be going apoplectic about the same thing.

We are getting shafted by SISU, shafted by the council, shafted by ACL and Alan Higgs.... but lets blame Thorn instead becuase he's an easy target.
He certainly is-and gets all the shit he deserves when offering long term contracts to Bell etc. I understand the point that these are all we can afford-True-doesn't mean they are any good and we can move forward with them!


So essientally the coach is immaterial.... and Thorn is as good as anyone else to manage them... 8)

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:19 pm
by Timbo
The way some people go on it wouldn't matter what kind of job the manager is doing because all the problems lie elsehwhere. Yes, he has a difficult job but he's not entirely blameless for this seasons ills. I'm a long way from feeling the same as Adge but on balance I don't think Thorn is the right man for the job.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:08 pm
by skyblue
My own take on this is fairly simple. I think Thorn could have done better this season but I also think that when we signed Norwood and had the players, temporarily, to play the system we wanted we looked a much better team. He obviously cn't think of a plan b and that is why I don't think he is the long term future.

Having said that I think there is no point getting rid of him until we have new owners. Whoever comes in under SISU will have their hands tid behind their backs so we may as well keep Thorn until either we are saved by a takeover or we die. Why cripple potential new owners with additional compensation packages etc... and if we do die why burden another manager with the duties of the funeral rights.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:53 pm
by king chillout
adge wrote:Thorn is the luckiest manager we have ever had. He has got away with it and if it was anyone else they would have been hung from the Tesco stand long before the end of the season. He has had a big smoke screen shielding him because of Sisu and the off field antics etc. People need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise that what we have seen in the last 5-6 games of the season is how it is going to be in league 1.These players are not going to become world beaters and be hit with the "quality" stick all of a sudden. They are not good enough.Adding to it will make a slight improvement but the majority of the dross will still be here. No fire in the belly either and that all stems from the manager.
For a start-when Norwich went down the first thing they did after 2-3 games was get rid of Bryan Gunn. Lambert then signed Grant Holt and Simeon Jackson etc to replace an innefective striker in Cody McDonald-guess who ended up with him? :roll: . Likewise Southampton when they went down cleared out the decks and started again. Many thought that getting rid of Pardew was a mistake and only 2 players from that era remain and 1 of them is Lallana.
If people think that Thorn and his long term cronies of McPake,Bell,Baker,Hussey,Deegan,McSheffrey,McDonald,Platt, and the likes of Clarke,Thomas,Bigirimana etc are going to make an impression-think again.



Agree with every single word.

Next season we will be relying on youngsters who have come through this season and been found not good enough. Is Thorn going to improve those players in a few months so that they can become promotion material ?

Never in a fucking million years ! He's a scout who got handed the job because there was no one else who wanted it.

Has he been dealt a shitty hand by SISU ? Yes. But a truly good manager would have made it work somehow. Thorn has never looked like he would make it work and seems to have learned nothing since he got the job.

I feel sorry for the bloke as he seems a nice enough chap and I feel sure he would have liked to have given his side of the story a few times in interviews but chose to stay tight lipped. But the harsh fact is he isn't what City need right now.
If he's still in charge next season ( I expect he will be) we will do nothing. I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around, but I just can't see him being the one to do it.

Having said all that, it's not just Thorn. The rest of the shit need to take their share of the blame.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:06 am
by the boss
as Alan Suger says there are some who just moan, moan and moan some more without ever offering solutions that can be achieved 8)

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:37 pm
by Burf
Alan who?

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:40 pm
by Sky Blue Strawberry
I agree with Timbo!

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:24 am
by bolix
It's a balanced view though, what place has that in the crazy, fucked up world of Ccfc?
Get with the prog, Strawbs, nothing but maniacal hysteria
will do.

Re: Thorn Yes or No- Revisited

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:27 am
by skyblue
I agree with Bolix.